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	<title>Comments on: The Virgin Tomb: The Womb of the New Birth</title>
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	<link>http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/the-virgin-tomb-the-womb-of-the-new-birth/</link>
	<description>Biblical Theology For the Future</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:56:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: James Jordan</title>
		<link>http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/the-virgin-tomb-the-womb-of-the-new-birth/#comment-1087</link>
		<dc:creator>James Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/?p=223#comment-1087</guid>
		<description>The parallels between Jesus&#039; first virginal birth and His second, from the tomb point to an answer to an old Medieval question: Was Mary &quot;violated&quot; by the birth of Jesus? Some said Jesus moved through her stomach and out, as He apparently moved through the door when He appeared to the disciples on the evening of the resurrection. In this way Jesus did not come in contact with that filthy vagina thing that so horrified some Medieval Christian thinkers. Others, notably Ratranmus of Corbie, argued that Jesus&#039; birth had to be ordinary, and thus proceed &quot;per vulvam,&quot; but without breaking Mary&#039;s hymen; again passing through the hymen like passing through the door.


The placement of the stone seal over the virginal tomb cannot but be seen as the equivalent of the hymenal seal. We see a parallel in Genesis 24:65, where the virgin Rebekah veils her face so that her husband can remove the veil. This outward symbolism used to be part of marriage services routinely. 


We don&#039;t read that Jesus passed through the stone seal when exiting the womb of Mother Adamah, but that angels moved the stone. The stone was no longer present to block Jesus&#039; new birth. Similarly, Mary&#039;s hymen was removed when Jesus was born. Whether he broke the hymen (which is really the husband&#039;s job), or whether angels miraculously removed it, is not something I can make a guess at. 


We can be sure, however, that Mary was no longer physically a virgin after the birth of Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The parallels between Jesus&#8217; first virginal birth and His second, from the tomb point to an answer to an old Medieval question: Was Mary &#8220;violated&#8221; by the birth of Jesus? Some said Jesus moved through her stomach and out, as He apparently moved through the door when He appeared to the disciples on the evening of the resurrection. In this way Jesus did not come in contact with that filthy vagina thing that so horrified some Medieval Christian thinkers. Others, notably Ratranmus of Corbie, argued that Jesus&#8217; birth had to be ordinary, and thus proceed &#8220;per vulvam,&#8221; but without breaking Mary&#8217;s hymen; again passing through the hymen like passing through the door.</p>
<p>The placement of the stone seal over the virginal tomb cannot but be seen as the equivalent of the hymenal seal. We see a parallel in Genesis 24:65, where the virgin Rebekah veils her face so that her husband can remove the veil. This outward symbolism used to be part of marriage services routinely. </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t read that Jesus passed through the stone seal when exiting the womb of Mother Adamah, but that angels moved the stone. The stone was no longer present to block Jesus&#8217; new birth. Similarly, Mary&#8217;s hymen was removed when Jesus was born. Whether he broke the hymen (which is really the husband&#8217;s job), or whether angels miraculously removed it, is not something I can make a guess at. </p>
<p>We can be sure, however, that Mary was no longer physically a virgin after the birth of Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: Alastair Roberts</title>
		<link>http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/the-virgin-tomb-the-womb-of-the-new-birth/#comment-1086</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 22:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/?p=223#comment-1086</guid>
		<description>John 16:21ff seem to me to be important verses in relation to this theme. I posted on this a while back on my blog (when I was still posting things on my blog) - http://alastair.adversaria.co.uk/?p=664.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John 16:21ff seem to me to be important verses in relation to this theme. I posted on this a while back on my blog (when I was still posting things on my blog) &#8211; <a href="http://alastair.adversaria.co.uk/?p=664" rel="nofollow">http://alastair.adversaria.co.uk/?p=664</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: James Jordan</title>
		<link>http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/the-virgin-tomb-the-womb-of-the-new-birth/#comment-1085</link>
		<dc:creator>James Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 20:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/?p=223#comment-1085</guid>
		<description>Sorry about the spacing above. And for some reason the apostrophes are reversed. But I cannot fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the spacing above. And for some reason the apostrophes are reversed. But I cannot fix it.</p>
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		<title>By: James Jordan</title>
		<link>http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/the-virgin-tomb-the-womb-of-the-new-birth/#comment-1084</link>
		<dc:creator>James Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/?p=223#comment-1084</guid>
		<description>One more backup essay, from &quot;Trees and Thorns,&quot; chapter 10. - JBJordan

	Then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

	The word for man is &#039;adam and the word for ground is &#039;adamah. Commentators routinely point out the similarity between these two words, noting that the ﬁrst is masculine and the second feminine. In terms of what we have already seen (in Chapter 2), we can see the motherhood of the earth expressed here. Humanity is the oﬀspring, so to speak, of heaven and earth, of God and the soil. 
	Most commentators question whether there is any relation between the words Adam and Adamah. The question of etymological relationship needs to be reexamined presuppositionally, however. If we assume that the human race existed for tens of thousands of years, and that languages grew up gradually over time, then we can try to understand Hebrew in terms of evolutionary development from certain “trileral roots,” as is commonly done today. Thus, Hebrew lexicons are organized in terms of these “three-letter roots,” with speciﬁc words grouped under each root. 
	Even on an evolutionary presupposition, however, I wonder if languages would grow developmentally out of roots. I suggest that languages grow and develop out of usage, and usage includes puns, analogies, and other things that are not “orderly and scientiﬁc.” The connections between words are more a matter of sound associations than of evolutionary development (though historical development also plays a part).
	From a Biblical standpoint, however, the whole question must be recast. God scattered humanity at Babel, and the Spirit of God worked rapidly, yea instantly, to create many new languages. We don&#039;t know if Hebrew was set up at that time, or if Hebrew is the primordial language of humanity before Babel. In either event, it was created virtually ex nihilo, either around 4000 B.C. – I come up with 3930 B.C. in Biblical Chronology 4:7 (July 1992) – or around 2150 B.C. (Babel; cp. Gen. 10:25, 30 and 11:2). This being the case, such things as puns and other word-similarities were built into human languages by God, and where these occur in the Bible we ought not to think them adventitious. The words Adam and Adamah are indeed related, then, and the motherhood of the soil is in view.
	Another word in this passage that is surely related to these two is the word &#039;ed in 2:6, which refers to the water that ﬂowed out of the earth (&#039;erets) and watered the &#039;adamah. (Vowels in Hebrew are secondary; what counts are consonants. Notice how Old Testament Edom becomes New Testament Idumea; “ee-dom” become “ee-dum.” Thus, &#039;d, &#039;dm, and &#039;dmh can be seen to be quite similar, particularly when we take note of the context and theology of this passage.) The &#039;ed, we notice, does not ﬂow from the &#039;adamah. Rather, the &#039;ed waters the &#039;adamah. The &#039;ed carries out the same function as the &#039;adam, the man. There is no &#039;adam yet made to cultivate the &#039;adamah, but for the time being &#039;ed does so. Once the &#039;adam is created, he will work with water and become the cultivator of the &#039;adamah.
	The &#039;adamah is the mother, but she has no water in herself. She must get water from a father. &#039;ed from the earth (&#039;erets) acts as the father-ﬂuid, and later &#039;adam, ruler of the earth, acts as father, to make mother &#039;adamah fruitful. More precisely, man takes over God&#039;s function as High Father, to bring &#039;erets and &#039;adamah together in fruitful marriage.
	But where does man himself come from? Is he the oﬀspring of mother &#039;adamah and &#039;ed from father &#039;erets? By no means. Man is made from dust, which is dry and without water. Genesis 2:7 sets us up for the question: “Then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the &#039;adamah.” A man-shape has been made of dust. Now, where will father-water come from to quicken this dust? The answer is that the “water” is the (moist) breath of the Spirit of God. 
	Genesis 2:5-6 pictures plants as generated by water and soil, by &#039;ed coming from the &#039;erets combined with soil (&#039;adamah). According to Genesis 1:24, the &#039;erets brought forth animals, and according to Genesis 2:19, God formed the animals out of &#039;adamah. Though God acted to make these things, they are not said to be made of a combination of heaven and earth. Only man, the ruler of the &#039;erets (earth) is made of God&#039;s breath and the dust of the soil. 
	The Spirit of God, His divine Breath, is heavenly. The ﬁrmament of Genesis 1:7 separated the waters, and the ﬁrmament is called heaven. Thus, the waters above the ﬁrmament are heavenly waters. The Spirit&#039;s breath should be seen to impart the moisture of the heavenly waters to the dust. This creates an association between wind, water, and the Spirit of God, an association that continues throughout the Bible. When God sends a dry, desiccating wind that dries up our moisture, we die (Ps. 32:4). Similarly, God&#039;s Spirit is not found in a ﬂood of water devoid of air (Ps. 32:6). But when God sends sprinklings of water from above, mixed in air, we are baptismally revived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more backup essay, from &#8220;Trees and Thorns,&#8221; chapter 10. &#8211; JBJordan</p>
<p>	Then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).</p>
<p>	The word for man is &#8216;adam and the word for ground is &#8216;adamah. Commentators routinely point out the similarity between these two words, noting that the ﬁrst is masculine and the second feminine. In terms of what we have already seen (in Chapter 2), we can see the motherhood of the earth expressed here. Humanity is the oﬀspring, so to speak, of heaven and earth, of God and the soil.<br />
	Most commentators question whether there is any relation between the words Adam and Adamah. The question of etymological relationship needs to be reexamined presuppositionally, however. If we assume that the human race existed for tens of thousands of years, and that languages grew up gradually over time, then we can try to understand Hebrew in terms of evolutionary development from certain “trileral roots,” as is commonly done today. Thus, Hebrew lexicons are organized in terms of these “three-letter roots,” with speciﬁc words grouped under each root.<br />
	Even on an evolutionary presupposition, however, I wonder if languages would grow developmentally out of roots. I suggest that languages grow and develop out of usage, and usage includes puns, analogies, and other things that are not “orderly and scientiﬁc.” The connections between words are more a matter of sound associations than of evolutionary development (though historical development also plays a part).<br />
	From a Biblical standpoint, however, the whole question must be recast. God scattered humanity at Babel, and the Spirit of God worked rapidly, yea instantly, to create many new languages. We don&#8217;t know if Hebrew was set up at that time, or if Hebrew is the primordial language of humanity before Babel. In either event, it was created virtually ex nihilo, either around 4000 B.C. – I come up with 3930 B.C. in Biblical Chronology 4:7 (July 1992) – or around 2150 B.C. (Babel; cp. Gen. 10:25, 30 and 11:2). This being the case, such things as puns and other word-similarities were built into human languages by God, and where these occur in the Bible we ought not to think them adventitious. The words Adam and Adamah are indeed related, then, and the motherhood of the soil is in view.<br />
	Another word in this passage that is surely related to these two is the word &#8216;ed in 2:6, which refers to the water that ﬂowed out of the earth (&#8216;erets) and watered the &#8216;adamah. (Vowels in Hebrew are secondary; what counts are consonants. Notice how Old Testament Edom becomes New Testament Idumea; “ee-dom” become “ee-dum.” Thus, &#8216;d, &#8216;dm, and &#8216;dmh can be seen to be quite similar, particularly when we take note of the context and theology of this passage.) The &#8216;ed, we notice, does not ﬂow from the &#8216;adamah. Rather, the &#8216;ed waters the &#8216;adamah. The &#8216;ed carries out the same function as the &#8216;adam, the man. There is no &#8216;adam yet made to cultivate the &#8216;adamah, but for the time being &#8216;ed does so. Once the &#8216;adam is created, he will work with water and become the cultivator of the &#8216;adamah.<br />
	The &#8216;adamah is the mother, but she has no water in herself. She must get water from a father. &#8216;ed from the earth (&#8216;erets) acts as the father-ﬂuid, and later &#8216;adam, ruler of the earth, acts as father, to make mother &#8216;adamah fruitful. More precisely, man takes over God&#8217;s function as High Father, to bring &#8216;erets and &#8216;adamah together in fruitful marriage.<br />
	But where does man himself come from? Is he the oﬀspring of mother &#8216;adamah and &#8216;ed from father &#8216;erets? By no means. Man is made from dust, which is dry and without water. Genesis 2:7 sets us up for the question: “Then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the &#8216;adamah.” A man-shape has been made of dust. Now, where will father-water come from to quicken this dust? The answer is that the “water” is the (moist) breath of the Spirit of God.<br />
	Genesis 2:5-6 pictures plants as generated by water and soil, by &#8216;ed coming from the &#8216;erets combined with soil (&#8216;adamah). According to Genesis 1:24, the &#8216;erets brought forth animals, and according to Genesis 2:19, God formed the animals out of &#8216;adamah. Though God acted to make these things, they are not said to be made of a combination of heaven and earth. Only man, the ruler of the &#8216;erets (earth) is made of God&#8217;s breath and the dust of the soil.<br />
	The Spirit of God, His divine Breath, is heavenly. The ﬁrmament of Genesis 1:7 separated the waters, and the ﬁrmament is called heaven. Thus, the waters above the ﬁrmament are heavenly waters. The Spirit&#8217;s breath should be seen to impart the moisture of the heavenly waters to the dust. This creates an association between wind, water, and the Spirit of God, an association that continues throughout the Bible. When God sends a dry, desiccating wind that dries up our moisture, we die (Ps. 32:4). Similarly, God&#8217;s Spirit is not found in a ﬂood of water devoid of air (Ps. 32:6). But when God sends sprinklings of water from above, mixed in air, we are baptismally revived.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: James Jordan</title>
		<link>http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/the-virgin-tomb-the-womb-of-the-new-birth/#comment-1082</link>
		<dc:creator>James Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 20:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblicalhorizons.wordpress.com/?p=223#comment-1082</guid>
		<description>Here are some further thoughts along these lines:

Biblical Horizons Newsletter 
No. 90: Beginning and New Beginning in Luke 
by James B. Jordan 
December, 1996 
BIBLICAL Horizons, No. 90
December, 1996
Copyright 1996 Biblical Horizons

Although the events are, of course, not perfectly parallel, Luke in his gospel intends us to connect Jesus’ birth from the womb and His re-birth from the tomb.

Luke 1:27 introduces us to Joseph and in verse 30 we learn that his betrothed wife was named Mary. An angel appeared to Mary and she was afraid, but the angel comforted her with the news that she would bear the world’s Messiah (1:29-31). Luke knows we have already read Matthew, and so while he does not mention that initially Joseph did not believe Mary’s report, he knows we already know it from Matthew.

The resurrection as recorded by Luke follows the same sequence. First we are told that a man named Joseph saw to Jesus’ burial (23:50-53). They we read that two women named Mary came to the tomb, saw angels, and were afraid (24:1-5). The angels comforted them with the news that the Messiah had risen (24:5-8). But the disciples did not believe them (24:9-11).

Other parallels are also clearly set out. In Luke 2:7, Mary gives birth to Jesus and wraps Him in cloths. This is in a lowly manger, because there was no room in the inn. In 24:50-54, Joseph wraps the body of Jesus in a linen cloth and puts Him in an expensive tomb, because He had no other. There is parallel and contrast: Mere cloth becomes linen, and a manger becomes an aristocratic tomb.

Angels appear to shepherds in Luke 2:8-20, and tell them to look for a baby wrapped in cloths in a manger. The next event in Luke 24 is parallel: In verse 12 (assuming this sentence is authentic), Peter responds to the news of the angels communicated by the women and goes to the tomb and sees the linen wrappings.

Another close parallel to the shepherds’ visitation is Jesus own appearance to the two people (two men, or man &amp; wife) on the road to Emmaus. Initially they do not know who Jesus is. Then, during the evening, Jesus reveals Himself to them. The angels also appeared to the shepherds at night. The shepherds immediately went to see the baby Jesus, and the two travelers immediately return to Jerusalem.

The couple on the road to Emmaus may also link with the appearance of the baby Jesus to Simeon and Anna in 2:25-38.

Finally, the boy Jesus left his parents and stayed in the Temple, His Father’s house (2:41-50). Similarly, at the end of Luke Jesus leaves the disciples and enters the heavenly Temple (Luke 24:50-53).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some further thoughts along these lines:</p>
<p>Biblical Horizons Newsletter<br />
No. 90: Beginning and New Beginning in Luke<br />
by James B. Jordan<br />
December, 1996<br />
BIBLICAL Horizons, No. 90<br />
December, 1996<br />
Copyright 1996 Biblical Horizons</p>
<p>Although the events are, of course, not perfectly parallel, Luke in his gospel intends us to connect Jesus’ birth from the womb and His re-birth from the tomb.</p>
<p>Luke 1:27 introduces us to Joseph and in verse 30 we learn that his betrothed wife was named Mary. An angel appeared to Mary and she was afraid, but the angel comforted her with the news that she would bear the world’s Messiah (1:29-31). Luke knows we have already read Matthew, and so while he does not mention that initially Joseph did not believe Mary’s report, he knows we already know it from Matthew.</p>
<p>The resurrection as recorded by Luke follows the same sequence. First we are told that a man named Joseph saw to Jesus’ burial (23:50-53). They we read that two women named Mary came to the tomb, saw angels, and were afraid (24:1-5). The angels comforted them with the news that the Messiah had risen (24:5-8). But the disciples did not believe them (24:9-11).</p>
<p>Other parallels are also clearly set out. In Luke 2:7, Mary gives birth to Jesus and wraps Him in cloths. This is in a lowly manger, because there was no room in the inn. In 24:50-54, Joseph wraps the body of Jesus in a linen cloth and puts Him in an expensive tomb, because He had no other. There is parallel and contrast: Mere cloth becomes linen, and a manger becomes an aristocratic tomb.</p>
<p>Angels appear to shepherds in Luke 2:8-20, and tell them to look for a baby wrapped in cloths in a manger. The next event in Luke 24 is parallel: In verse 12 (assuming this sentence is authentic), Peter responds to the news of the angels communicated by the women and goes to the tomb and sees the linen wrappings.</p>
<p>Another close parallel to the shepherds’ visitation is Jesus own appearance to the two people (two men, or man &amp; wife) on the road to Emmaus. Initially they do not know who Jesus is. Then, during the evening, Jesus reveals Himself to them. The angels also appeared to the shepherds at night. The shepherds immediately went to see the baby Jesus, and the two travelers immediately return to Jerusalem.</p>
<p>The couple on the road to Emmaus may also link with the appearance of the baby Jesus to Simeon and Anna in 2:25-38.</p>
<p>Finally, the boy Jesus left his parents and stayed in the Temple, His Father’s house (2:41-50). Similarly, at the end of Luke Jesus leaves the disciples and enters the heavenly Temple (Luke 24:50-53).</p>
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